Jared/Jon 10 - Reading the Bible



(Ahahahahaha - A thought)
Jon Points out a Verse about what the Bible is

Hello everyone.

Heres something that is from the Heartlight "Praying with paul" thing.
Its talking about what I said a while ago, about not reading the Bible as just a book, but God's
Message.

"Thank you for the word proclaimed in the New Testament. Help us
accept it for what it really is, not mere words written by men, but
the word of God, your will revealed to us and made alive in our
lives."

Remember - We speek to GOd through prayer (And I guess our actions as well) and one of the Ways he
speeks to us is through the Bible. How
often have you prayed something, opened the Bible, and
your answer was right there?? I must say its happened to me on a number of
occasions.

To kill two birds with one stone (Which I would Never do) Heres another thought:

I love the U2 song - Walk on. Its message is bascally, "the only baggage we can bring is all that we
can't leave behind." It lists at the
end tones of things that we "can Leave Behind" at the end
of the song, Heres the last bit of the song anyway:
Leave it behind
YOur've got to leave it behind
All that you fashion
All that you make
All that you build
All that you break
All that you measure
All that you Steal
All this you can leave behind
All that you reason
All that you sense
All that you speek
All you dress up
All that you scheme

To me its saying, Why do you need all these things if in the long run they count for nothing. These
things can blind us when we are
looking towards the fisnihing line, and cause Us to run into the
Stands.

Thanks
Jon

PS - I've been told, on a few occasions, that I am a Bit of a Positive person.
Would anyone agree?
(I'll also bring up that game we played where you Say a Good thing and a Bad thing, and I went
first, Had a good thing right away, and
couldn't think of any bad things, And most other people
found it hard to get a Good thing. At the end of It I did find a bad thing though
- that the
water in brisbine tastes bad. and it took me about 5-10 minutes to come up with)


A responce from Jared

I rarely have that happen to me generally because I don't read the Word
just after I've prayed but something along the same lines did happen to
me however. I was having a problem with God over something over the
weekend and my inbox was full of things which I could see pertained to
my problem.

Take a look Ecclesiates 12:1-8 throughout the entire book of
Ecclesiastes Solomon was trying to find something of worth in the world
(indeed throughout his entire life) and he comes to the conclusion that
God is the only lasting thing in the world and the only thing which you
can't leave behind is God. And I've had it happen that when I'm reading
the Word something leaps out at me and I have an apostraphe (epiphany
for those who haven't seen Hook recently) about something or other.

I'll say that you're more of a postive person than I am but that is not
saying much but I do think you are positive most of the time.

God bless,
Jared May-trix


Jon's Reply

Yeah, I've had that happen quite a Bit lately. Opening up my inbox, and
finding it filled with answers to my problims, or answers to my questions.
An few times I have just thought of something briefly, and a few days later
open up my box, and theres stuff about it right there. One time I was trying
to find a verse, and failing, so I pretty much gave up, and when I checked
my mail it was there.

When I said about asking God something them him replying through his word, I
didn't mean it always happens instantly (Although it does sometimes, at
least for me) be more often than not it does happen.
God can also talk to us through other people, and usally they don't realise
that what they are saying means tones more to you than they think.

You said that Soloman concluded that God is the only thing that really
matters, and in the New testiment we find out that God is Love. SO love is
the only thing that matters, and thats what the Song is saying.
So therefore, if love is the only thing that matters, why don't we start
loving more. I've probably said this before, but you can hate someone but
still love them, so why don't we all drop all our unnessacary "I don't like
you"ness and just love everyone, and let it show...

Tank you very much
Jon


Jared's reply

Well what happened to me was sorta a combination of both, most of the
stuff I received was from Heartlight in the WJD and Today's Verse emails
so it was sort of two birds with one stone (which I would do if I was
hungry).
God using people even if they don't know that they are being used is a
key thought. Some people have the problem of God using even worse
nations than Israel to punish them but God uses everything. He used
stronger surrounding nations yet their fate has been far worse than that
of Israel's in the end since only the theologians and historians could
care for them. In the same way as this God can use non-Christians to his
ends even though that doesn't mean that they will become Christians. No
one can guess which people God is using. Also if we feel the urge to
talk to someone then we should do it because it could be God and if it
isn't what do we lose. It's like the way I believe pre-destination to
be, God has already chosen who is to be saved and who isn't but that is
because he is outside of time and therefore can see who is with him. We,
howver, don't, then we should be as outspoken about our saviour as
possible, for who knows we could be the person destined to convert them.
The problem is that Christians come from the world, though we should
always remember that it is not our final destination (compare with the
last Quotemeal), and the world (at the moment) is under Satan's control
and Satan hates everything especially humanity for it is from humanity
that his bane came. He, therefore, attempts to turn humans against each
other teaching them not to trust and not to open themselves up. This
causes hate between individuals, refering back to my email about judging
on appearance if we put on a mask then people grow to love or hate the
mask and therefore hate you, whilst if you were not wearing the mask
they would not hate you because they could sense the truth of it.
God bless,
Jared May-trix


Jon's One

While still on the topic of how God can talk to us, I believe that he talks
to us through people and what they say, usually without them realising it.
Sure when someone is speaking they are trying to teach us something, and get
a point across, but sometimes, through just one sentence, to you it was God
who was speaking to you.
That actually happened at the Lads concert when Chris was talking. What he
said got to me on more than one level, and through a couple of things he was
saying I sensed God was talking to me.
He can use non-Christians, because they are willing to question everything
that we are and believe, and that can Test and strengthen our faith, and
through our displays of faith sometimes even effect them.
It is true that God has decided who is to be saved (Or to look at it from My
View point, God knows who does Get saved) but we have to remember that that
is God's Decision, not ours, and we have NO IDEA who is going to be saved, so
therefore should try to Help everyone.

Irrelevant thought:
The only thing I hate about being Human is the Fact that I'm Human, but then
again that's also the reason I love Being Human.

To Quote Rueben: "I want to be a Fool for Jesus"
We should think more like that - Who cares if I look like a Fool, it doesn't
really matter. We should do as much as we can to "Support the cause" as we
humanly can, and Pray for God to give us the Strength to Do so.

Good Afternoon, Good evening and Goodnight
Jon

(PS I want to do theology now)


Jared's reply to that reply to a reply...

Yes, he does use them. However, you have to be careful when going up
against a group of non-Christians for just as the KKK feeds off the
crowds violent response a group of non-Christians will feed off each
other and shout you down so that is why a group of Christians are always
better than a single solitary Christian.
Did you know that there is a group of 'Christians' with exactly the
opposite philosophy they won't try and convert anyone because they
believe that those who are to become Christian have already been chosen
and therefore no matter what they do they will be saved anyway. Can you
imagine how far the gospel would have spread if the apostles took that
view point their faith probably would have died with them. Even Jesus
Christ ministered to people and if we are to be Christ in the world we
should do as he did.
Check out 1 Corinthians 6:3 "Do you not know that you will judge
angels?" cool, huh? I think I would prefer to be human to gain that much
power than an angel and have lived forever. Did you realise that in a
way angels are no better than us they also have a choice about whether
to worship God or not, since God gives all his sentinent creations
free-choice they can choose him or not he gave angels the same choice as
humans and guess what some of them failed like us. But we're the ones
who have to pick up the pieces of both mistakes, we have to deal with
our sinfulness, the temptations of those who fell first, and judge them
also. Humans are so much more powerful than angels because we have to
deal with both forms of temptation, spiritual and physical (two forms
of warfare), which if we pass through makes us so much stronger than an
angel what Richard said on Sunday it makes into battle-scarred warriors
who know how to fight.
God bless,
Jared May-trix
ps I would love to do theology also
pps for the sermon for the evening service I'll be doing it on what
Christ gave up for us, I think it ties into price of salvation well
enough, if you don't think so then email me back.


Jon's Reply

I definataly agree about strenth in numbers, but If I was a non Christian I
would be far more impressed with one person who had A HUGE amount of faith
and who took on impecible odds alone, than a group of CHristians that had a
Small amount of faith.
If someone has everything going aggainst them, No one supports the but they
stick with their faith it can mean sooo much. But a group of people who keep
each other strong probably wont have as much as an impact (Although it is
Easyer (more comfortable) to be in the second group, and usally alot "Safer"
as most people would need to have the Group to keep them Strong)
A egg that balances by itsself is more impressive than one that is being
held up, although the one that is being supported probably wont fall over,
and if it does the fall probably wont hurt it as badly, where as the one
that is standing by itsself can fall over easyer, and is more likly to break
if it happens.
I completly disagree with their Phlosiphy (As I belive that you do too)
cause Gods way of Spredding the word is through His people.
Remember that story from easter camp about the Man who felt God telling him
to talk to some other people, but he basically said "NO" and went to sleep
until his stop. Some time later he found out that that train had crashed
soon afterwards, with the people who God had told him to speek to on it, and
they Died.
That is very true about the Battle Scares. One thing I recall from the
Screwtape letters (I'm about half way through now) is how he mentioned that
God uses the Low patches in our lives more than the High ones, and that we
Grow more from the Low ones than the High. Isn't that true though. Also when
we loose touch with reality we often encounter a Low patch which brings us
back on track. Like if we forget why were following Jesus, he brings us
back, or if we let our pride get the Better of us, HE BRINGS US BACK.
Man thats great, to know "Theres a God who loves me and knows me by my name
(I can go into town by myself if I want to....)

Thanks God, for everything

Jon

(PS Infact I'm accually considering it)
(PPS thats good, but I think it would be important to breifly touch on the
Main topic directally. ALso remember simplicity is best (Cause most of us
don't know many big words, so therefore they are useless) and, what Chrips
was telling me, If you know a Few storys really really well it can make it
soooo much better.
He accually told me a story about how one sunday him as his friend had
nothing better to do, so they dicided to go to the Local School hall cause
they had seen a Sign saying that there was a couple speekers there. When
they got there they found out that they were to only people there. THe First
guy spoke for about 35 mins, and was soooooo dead boring, and the second
guy 45mins and even worst.
He said that that was probably the most boring time of his life
Sorry about that completly irrevent comment)


Jared's reply

You said if you were a non-Christian, singular, not a group. It is
easier to talk one on one with any person about anything because then
they are more likely to listen to you but the second you get three
people with two people believing the same thing they gang up on the
other person and basically batter them into silence and end up believing
that they confirmed their belief. Also, if you are in a group believing
in the same thing a person is unlikely to change their point of view in
front of their friends because then they would get ridiculed by their
'friends'. Jesus found the same thing with the Pharisees when they were
in a group together they challenged him together yet in John 3:1 a
Pharisee approaches Jesus by himself and is willing to listen to what
Jesus teaches. What I meant is if you are to speak to a group of
non-Christians face-to-face then it is better to have a group of you, 2
Corinthians 13:1 "Every matter must be established by the testimony of
two or three witnesses", for then they are encouraged by each other but
if you are speaking to one non-Christian it is better to be by yourself
to show that this is what you believe and it isn't being encouraged by
others and it is easier for them to respond to one Christian rather than
feeling gang-bashed by a group of Christians.
God uses the low patches in our lives more than the high patches because
that is when we need him more a man is more likely to cry out to God
when his world is crashing down around his ears than if everything is
fine and we have no need for God. Then if the man turns whole-heartedly
to God giving his life into his hands giving him control of the boat and
goes to sleep peacefully because 'Daddy' has the helm (refering back to
your story) then God will use that boat/life to the fullest extent that
the boat can sail. Then when God has ridden out the storm for us we
should leave him at the tiller rather than trying to take control once
again.
He not only loves you and knows you by your name but knows the number of
hairs on your head also, how cool is that?
God bless,
Jared May-trix
ps I will do stories of course ones that are relevant and probably rip
off bits from my favourite movies and books as well.


A reply from the Jon

I will add now that, when I was talking about "A Non Christian" I was
meaning one who is part of a Group of Non-Belivers.
Its true that when in a group of people who belive one thing, that your
likly to adopt their beliefs after a while, But if someone was able to hold
on to their belilves Strongly, and not be afraid of critisism, and display
their faith, then the others might reconsider.
Think of Jesus, He stood up for what he knew was right, and No one really
understood, but he held on to his beliefs, and in the end... Well he made a
Big change didn't he.
I'm not saying that we should try doing this, cause were not Jesus, and
therefore need the Support, and constant remeinder that we have people to
support and back us up.

I think we have to "Shine, make them wonder you got, make them wish that
they were not, on the outside looking ^Foward??^"

If I was to say Yell "West Si-eede" to someone who didn't like me, and he
was to come up to me, and try to scare me, If I don't back down at all hes
just going to just give up (Its ture).

I also agree that its good, at least at first to do the whole "One to One"
thing. Problim is sometimes they are simply just trying to proove you wrong

I think also, in the Low patches God can see weather or not we are genuine.
If, when it gets too Hard we all Bail out and just give up, well thats not
the Attitude we should have is it..

Composed by the two and Only - Jon


Jared's reply to that one

However, what is more likely to happen is this (I got this from another
friend so for the sake of anonymity): 'he' was in a group of friends who
were non-Christian and they got into one of their regular debates about
Christianity. 'He' held onto their point of view but the problem was
that 'his' friends out numbered 'him' eight to one so there were eight
questions asked in rapid-fire succession and by the time 'he' had
answered two of the questions 'he' had forgotten the other six and
another eight were piled on top of it. My friend came away feeling
completely outnumbered and upset because 'he' felt that 'he' hadn't
managed to get through to any of them and had the feeling that 'his'
friends came away feeling that they were in the right because 'he'
hadn't answered all of their questions. Whereas later on one of 'his'
friends was doing a paper on something to do with life after death and
'his' friend was taking the viewpoint that it doesn't matter because if
there is no after life then there will be no sorrow (or similar) then my
friend told him that what if there was? Suddenly a change of expression
came over his face and he said 'If there is an afterlife then you must
feel like weeping some much of the times 'cause we're going to hell.'
When talking to the whole group my friend had no success because 'he'
was one person against many but one-on-one he did have success. When
speaking to a group of non-believers they will be silent for their
friends but when you come to speak they will shout you down whenever you
say something they disagree with. However, when speaking one-on-one they
listen to you and absorb what you say.
What do you mean "...on the outside looking ^forward^"
Yes but what if he was with his buddies would you be as quick to shout
out something you know that he would not like. No matter whether the
friends couldn't care less about you or not they will come along with
their friend to provide him with backup.
I think that we discussed this in passing while Reuben was there, God
will only use us if we're willing to be used. If we aren't willing to
obey him in the little things then how can he ever trust us with the
large things.
God bless,
Jared May-trix


Jon sez

I totally agree. I'm not at all saying its advisible, and its something that
would be close to impossible.
BUT, what about people like that guy who went to that atheist convention. It
would of course be differn't there because he will only have to answer one
question at a time, and it will be orginised.
If you did end up in a big debate like that, as long as its organised, and
insted of ganging up, the others are willing to actually listen, then it
would be very good, but the chances of that happening are probably quite low
because they would be trying to prove you wrong (I think).

The point I was making is if we keep to our beliefs and keep trong, it
shows and people can see that. You don't necessarily have to say anything,
but if you're asked a question you should try to answer it (better if you try
using an unoffensive manner to do so) not just say "nah flag" and just "wipe
the" question away (If you did this people could see that you were in fact
not that strong, and then think that your just a hypocrite or something)

When I said "... On the outside looking ^foward^" I was of corse quoting a
song (Shine, I thought you would pick up on that) but I didn't know the last
word, so I put in inside ^s.


Jared has his say

The problem with when you are in a large group is that you are speaking
to them in similar style to one-on-one yet to many people at once it is
better to speak to them individually and so better answer each question.
I was ignoring things like speaking from a stand because then you are
not arguing and they will listen to you 'cause you got the mike.

As you heard on Sunday I completely disagree with you on this point it
is better to tell them that you don't know the answer than to try to
argue with them about something you don't know about. If such a
situation does occur you should go research that topic so that you know
your belief's in that regard. This is not hypocritical because unless
you made the stupid assertion that you know everything then it is just
being human.
God bless,
Jared May-trix
ps of course I recognized it but I think the refrain goes "Shine, make
them wonder what you got; make them wish that they were not on the
outside looking for" as in spiritual satisfaction.


Jon replys

I have to say that I am VERY tired at the moment. Practices all morning for
the Production and a music video shoot in the afternoon..

Anyways, I do think that it is best not to argue things you don't know, but
the thing you mustn't do is fob off the question by ignoring it, or not
actually saying anything proper.
If you don't know, say a little, and then say that if they want you will
research it for them, or refer them to someone who knows.

Anyways, shouldn't we trust that the Holy Spirit will help us out in those
kinda situations.
If we have faith that the words will be there, then they will...

I think that talking to a large group who disagree completly (but are
willing to listen) shows a lot of faith, and that kinda faith does rub off on
people.
Sometimes the greatest thing you can do is just show that you have faith..

See yas


And, from the 'mouth' of Jared

I completely agree that you should not ignore the question and you
should say what you know no matter how small it is. However, even if
they don't want you to research it for them you should research it
anyway for your sake for then you will grow in knowledge. I do agree
that you should refer them to someone who is knowledgable on a topic and
will be able to handle their questions with ease whether it is someone
older or a person who is further along the path than yourself.
I don't know about that one about the Spirit giving you the words I
think God would prefer for you to research the topic to show that you
are willing to learn and grow. The Spirit can give us the words and the
answers but God prefers to work with what we've got, its like what I
said in that thing about exams pray for wisdom to recall what you've
learnt.
But that is the point, is it not, it is whether or not they are willing
to listen if they are then that is great but if they are not then your
task will be so much harder.
God bless,
Jared May-trix


Jon's Reply

Like I said on Sunday; I find that people can get annoyed when you oo have
the answers, and when you don't back down. I think they get that way because
they can see turth in what your saying, and, their motive is reversed from
trying to 'break' you to trying for you not to 'break' them.

Also, the more open you are about it, the more you an do IE "are you saved".
If you hold back, well then you'll probably never get to the Point.

I think the Most important thing is for us to have faith, and trust that God
will help us out while talking to people, cause, I mean, if he didn't help
we could do nothing. Like you said, we can't put God in a Box. We can't say
he wont do something and vise Versa.
(Isaiah 45:9 - "How terrible it will be for those who argue with the God who
made them. They are like a piece of broken pottery among many pieces. The
clay does not ask the potter, 'What are you doing?' The thing that is made
doesn't say to its maker, 'You have no Hands'")

I think that will do for now...


NOTE: This convo Is still going - The last message was Added/Written on the 12th of August








This page was made with the help of your broadcasting fee so you can see more of Us online.

All Content (C)Copyright Meow Meow 2007

If you have any comments or suggestions then e-mail me at [email protected]